Tslagi 163: Another Fake Resurfaces
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A couple of months ago, I wrote about a patch from this lodge that I dubbed, with tongue firmly implanted in my cheek, the “One True Fake“. In that post I told the tale of what I have listed on my site as the Tslagi 163 ZS1? and also made reference to a second private issue, believed to be unique I will tentatively label this the ZS2? since, even though this was likely made before the “ZS1?”, it was the second of the fakes to see the light of day.
The patch labelled ZS2?, like the ZS1?, was created by a collector in my lodge. He had put together a display of Tslagi issues and was lacking a YS1 but was able to find a company that would produce a computer designed flap with a similar design. It was believed only one of these was made. The patch I previously described as the ZS1? came about at the same time. It now seems that more than one of the computer designed copy of the YS1 were created.
The Scout Patch Auction (TSPA) currently has this patch listed on eBay at the time this post is written. Not knowing the story behind this flap, he labelled it “Boy Scout OA Lodge 163 Tslagi YS? Not In Blue Book”. I have since informed Roy More (owner of TSPA) of the story behind this patch. While, reasonably so, he cannot reveal his consignor’s identity he has told me the person is not from the current lodge 70 area, leading me to believe that more than one copy of this patch is now in circulation.
In another odd turn of events, I did notice that one of the current bidders on this item is the person who first had this copy of the YS1 made.
This patch, like “The One True Fake”, has not been listed in Blue Book even though it first appeared several years ago. The Blue Book listing should read:
| Issue | Bdr Color/Type | Bkgd | Name | fdl/BSA | Comments | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ZS2? | YEL | R | BLK | RED | BRN | fdl; yel BSA, all black sky, CD copy of YS1 |
| Tslagi 163 page on OAImages.com | ||||||
John, Guess I should read your blog before I bid from now on. By the way, I strongly disagree with your idea of acknowledging such patches within the Blue Book numbering system. I would be in favor of a simple descriptive listing of known issues, so collectors can at least have a quick reference as to authenticity. I feel that once a patch has been designated it’s own offical a number, there will be a group of collectors who will be more likely to start scrambling to “complete” their “everything collection” and the whole thing gets crazy and the “leeches” start sucking blood out of honest collectors with all kinds of fake issues start coming out of the walls. We should never provide an opportunity to make dishonesty profitable. If they are “spoofs”, call them spoofs. Remember the Scout Laws.
Hi John,
Small world. I have been away for a while being Cubmaster and ASM for my son’s Troop.
Yes, I did make a repro (fake) of the YS1 for a display. I still have it. I did bid on one just like it on Ebay, more for curiousity than anything. I had nothing to do with a second patch that appears 7 years later.
When I ordered this patch, the guy said I had to order so many of another patch like it. So I ordered some with a blue sky. I traded a few, more like gave them away, and then put them away. I never made a dime on any of this, not that it is important. I do not recall trading one to someone in Cali. If I did, it was a mistake and I should not have done it…
Poor judgement, sure. I apoligize, not sure to who……
I don’t really collect much anymore, not much fun. What I would like to have is unattainable. The other thing that took the fun out of it is guys getting together and saying, “ooooh this one has no torso, straight legs, brown arms versus dark brown arms, an on and on and on.
I am not sure what is more damaging to the hobby.
We can all decide for ourselves.
Yours in WWW, not patch collecting……
David Craft
my only problem with the whole matter is a guy cannot find an s-1 from said lodge. why not ask a collector who has one to borrow one if it is only going to be a display and return it when done. or another way to achieve the same sucess is to scan and print the flap. We had a huge display of emorabilia at a function before and a friend of mine did the second and everyone thought it was the real deal color copiers are so hi-def now it really looked nice even though he didnt have it….or go make him one as others have done in other lodges.
my only problem with the whole matter is a guy cannot find an s-1 from said lodge. why not ask a collector who has one to borrow one if it is only going to be a display and return it when done. or another way to achieve the same sucess is to scan and print the flap. We had a huge display of emorabilia at a function before and a friend of mine did the second and everyone thought it was the real deal color copiers are so hi-def now it really looked nice even though he didnt have it….and not go make him one as others have done in other lodges.
Jeff –
It’s the YS1… BIG difference. Please see the email I just sent. The YS1 is priceless and will not be found on a display board.
I’m really of mixed emotions on this whole issue lately. I’ve seen a lot. What does more (if any harm) to the hobby:
– An obvious copy of a nearly unique item;
– Collectors obssessed with cataloging obscure minutiae;
– Back door sales of issues by the manufacturer or subcontractors;
– Fakes of recent issues.
I’ll leave it up to folks to make up their own mind.
my point was the collector should have respected the fact it was a very rare prototype and made a copy of it out of PAPER!!! for his display. didnt/doesn’t matter which issue it is fakes are an evil plaque in our hobby….my two cents worth.