2012 SR-7B Vigil Rededication Patch

Posted in SR-7B Lodges,Tsoiotsi Tsogalii 70 by John E. Pannell on May 6th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
2012 SR-7B Vigil Rededication Patch

2012 SR-7B Vigil Rededication Patch

Greg Grimes and Rick Horne both told me about the patch pictured here. It was given out at the Vigil Rededication ceremony during the recent 2012 SR-7B Conclave.  We have had some discussion amongst our selves over whether this should be considered a lodge or section issue.  Some of the points that came up in our discussion were:

– Tsoiotsi Tsogalii was host/service lodge for this event.  It is customary for the host lodge to give a gift or trinket to those who attend the Vigil rededication at conclave;

– The patch a red tail hawk feather which is an important part of the local customs regarding the Vigil Honor in this lodge but does not use the lodge’s name;

– The patch was only available to Vigil Honor brothers and given to members of other lodges.   However it is not uncommon either for a lodge to restrict its patches to only some of its members or to give its patches to brothers from other lodges.

I have not yet heard the answer to the question that would settle this:  Who ordered, produced and paid for this patch?   If it were the lodge, then in my opinion, this should be cataloged as an issue of Tsoiotsi Tsogalii lodge.   If the section had responsibility for producing this, then it should be considered a section issue.   Please feel free to comment and and discuss.

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15 Responses to “2012 SR-7B Vigil Rededication Patch”

  1. Greg Grimes Says:

    In speaking with the manufacturer this morning about an unrelated patch, I asked who made the patch….ONS ordered them….so that tells me it is a lodge issue.

  2. David Pugh Says:

    The Lodge Has The Patch made .It Matches The Staff And Cook Crew Patch.And The Lode Controls The Patch.And he Red Hawk Feather Is Tsoiotsi.It Is On Three Patches two Has The Name on It. It Is a X

  3. R.e. Says:

    Nothing defines this as a 331 item. If it was available at SR7b to all Vigil members, it should be a Section or Conclave item.

  4. Greg Grimes Says:

    It wasn’t availabe to all Vigil members…well so to speak. You had to attend the Vigil rededication ceremony to be eligible to get one.

    It has in the past been sort of a tradition for the host lodge to give these Vigil rededication participants a gift of some sorts….If that gift is a patch made by the host lodge, it is an issue of that lodge.

    104 issued such a patch in 2007. Not a Section issued patch. The left overs were sold by the lodge and any profits made through those sales went to offset the purchase price of the patches.

  5. Richard Pridgen Says:

    As I don’t have one I don’t want to count it as a lodge issue! But that doesn’t mean it isn’t…

    Part of the responsibilities of the host lodge is to do a vigil redidication ceremony and a gift be it a patch or some other trinket.

    The ideology behind it says section issue, but the host lodge pays for it. The better question is, does it fall under or is included in the descretionary funds that the section gives the host lodge?

  6. Rick Horne Says:

    First, I am not upset at the decision to list this patch as a lodge issue. There is a benefit for having patches identified somewhere and some section conclave related patches are not.

    However, I am not convinced that we are using the right criteria for determining the status of this patch. I think that the purpose of the patch should be a major factor. This patch was issued for the Section SR-7B Vigil Rededication. It was given to participants from all lodges that attended the activity.

    I do not think who ordered, produced and paid for the patch should be the only factor. By this standard I think every Dixie Fellowship “Staff” or “Host Lodge” patch would become lodge activity issues. I suspect the host lodge orders all conclave related items. I do not believe an OA section is a legal entity capable of ordering thousands of dollars in memorabilia. I guess if they paid cash in advance they could obtain the stuff. I think I will ask Ted Williams, Section SR-7B Staff Advisor.

    Just my thoughts on the subject…

  7. Greg Grimes Says:

    Used to be that the lodge ordered all of the Section stuff (least it was that way in 2007….last time 104 hosted) but now Section orders all Section memorabilia. I assume the Section monies are nestled up in the ONS Council accounts somewhere which makes this even more of a question as to whom is really responsible for the order/payment of said patch.

  8. David Cody Says:

    For me, the first criteria for a piece of lodge memoribilia is to answer the question, was it issued to the lodge to begin with?
    In this case, for me, no. I would have a different opinion if Tsoiotsi Tsogalii had issued this patch at a lodge function prior and then gave them out to those vigil members attending the rededication also. Also in this case, it is plain that this was a section related item, clearly designed to be given at a section event. Ok Tsoiotsi Tsogalii paid for the patches to be made or at least arranged for them to be made, but after all, that is what the host lodge does for all the badges for the section for that weekend. So if you count this item as a lodge item, then the arguement could be similarly made that all the conclave items were lodge items also. If I had a vote, this is a conclave item.
    Now let’s argue the designation of the Wahissa s12 or X!

  9. Greg Grimes Says:

    LOL….yeah, it’s not even flap shape….It’s square! Well except for the jagged bottom. Both the S-11 & S-12

  10. John E. Pannell Says:

    David and Greg — As for the Wahissa S11 and S12, I’ll quote a former president (or at least one of his impersonators):

    “Not gonna go there… Wouldn’t be prudent.”

    ;)

  11. Soup296 Says:

    2011 Conclave @ Wahissa…. The redidication patch issued in 2011 is listed on the OA IMAGES SITE as X28.
    So why would not the Redidication patch issued at the 2012 Conclave NOT be listed as an X on Tsoiotsi Tsogalii’s OA images page.
    I know the 2009 conclave we hosted… we did not give out patches…. we had NICE…umm…. TILE squares…. O My….. And I think that is why they are NOT listed on OA images 296 page. beacuse they are not patches.
    I can send JOhn a SCAN of these TILES if he would like…

    But just because it does not have Tsoiotsi Tsogalii on the patch itself like whassia’s did… does not make it a non lodge patch.

    WHAT about all the DIXIE issues from 188….. are they LODGE issues? OR are they section Issues? Or are the DIXIE FLAPS 188 issues and the dangle’s Section stuff? OR?

    ALL In all… I think it is better to LIST it as SOMETHING for sure… that way it is never LOST to other collectors in the future…..

  12. Rick Horne Says:

    On May 9, I spoke with Ted Williams, Section SR-7B Staff Advisor, and he said that Brett Warner orders all Section memorablilia on behalf of the Section. I believe there are adequate funds received through pre-orders to cover the costs of all materials. They have used the same manufacturer for several years and have a great working relationship for these items.

    It has become tradition in Section SR-7B for the host lodge to give a “gift” to members attending the Vigil Rededication ceremony. The Section leaves it up to the lodge to determine what they want to give. This would suggest that all recent and future gift items would be lodge issues and listed in Blue Book if they fit in the “cloth” classifications it covers. (Occoneechee, please no rubber item next year!)

  13. Greg Grimes Says:

    Rick, Were you reading my mind!? Now to try and figure out an alternative :-(

  14. John Pannell Says:

    Greg —

    What about a hologram flap? Oh… wait… that’s been done already.

    Maybe you can have the twill cloth tie-dyed before it is embroidered. Oh, wait… that’s been done, too.

    How about a great big metal flap that weighs about a pound? Geez, that’s also already been done.

    How about a flap shaped chocolate bar? It’s not a patch but… it’s been done, too.

    It’s getting hard to come up with original ideas.

  15. Greg Grimes Says:

    Thinking maybe a woven with a merrowed bdr…I know they’ve been done lately, but not in
    NC.

    The last NC wovens were back in the 80′s & 90′s if I’m remembering correctly and they were what I call the “true” wovens.

    Yeah, cutting edge ideas are hard to come by these days! Look out NOAC!! :-)

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